To prove I have other forces my Crimson Fists took to the field against Orks tonight with a 2/1 loss on objectives. Still like the force and think differences in how I used them could have made a difference, but fun to play as at least with lots of options and maneuverability.
HQ - Kantor
Troops - 2 x 10 man tac squads with razorbacks, melta and missile + sarge with power fist
Elites - sternguard squad in a razorback acting as Pedro's squad
6 man terminator assault squad with thunder hammers and storm shields (might swap a couple to lightning claws)
1 dread with assault and missile launcher
Fast - 10 man assault squad with power fist
2 x landspeeders with multimeltas and heavy flamers.
Fast force with no long range hitting power but lots up close. Kantor turns even standard marines into a close combat choice by giving everyone within 12 an additional attack so assault terminators, sternguard and assault marines are pretty hard hitting with his motivational presence. The land speeders run interference and snipe targets whilst the terminators advance on the largest threat and soak fire. Seems to work OK though some weaknesses and gaps, still nice fast force that can deliver fire where its needed and assault when it isn't enough (even took a few Orks out in assault phase).
Biggest weakness? 'bunker' squads designed to soak wounds can really stall this army as aside from the hammers there isn't anything to reliably overcome feel no pain and multiple wounds but at least it has the speed to avoid these if needed. And with a loss to the army's record how can anyone doubt their efficiency?
Think you should have at least a couple of the Assault Terminators with claws, otherwise you risk being pummelled by hordes before you can even strike.
ReplyDeleteReally hate Assault Marines at the moment, at least Kantor gets them over their biggest weakness (one attack on a CC unit? Yuck!) but you're forcing your "fast" army into a 6" hammer around Kantor, who is going to get his transport shot out from under him very quickly (forcing him to foot-slog his bonus across the field).
If I had to pick a single weakness, it's that there's no stand-off fire-power here. 3 MLs aren't going to cut it against IG / Mechdar. I also think that the Power Fists are a colossal waste of 25pts (Tacticals in combat? Er... no). You've almost got another Speeder right there, or the points to turn the two you have into Typhoons and pick up some sorely needed long-range mech-busting / suppression.
My two cents :)
Opps, 12" block around Kantor, but you got the idea!
ReplyDeleteThis probably isn't the way to start my comment but: Is this army 1540 pts, or am I just failing at maths?
ReplyDeletePedro - 175
'Naked' Sternguard in a Bolter Back - 165
6 Assault Termies - 240
Dread - 125
10 Tacs Bolterback, Powerfist and Melta - 240
10 Tacs Bolterback, Powerfist and Melta - 240
10 AssM Powerfist - 215
Landspeeder with HF and MM - 70
Landspeeder with HF and MM - 70
I get 1540 every which way! Apologies if it's deliberate or if you meant to write 5 Assault Termies (which would make sense as you're 40 points over).
Anyway; I like the force. I like the Crimson Fist theme, it seems to fit without spamming Sternguard (shame you lost to the hated Orks though).
Like Ant said - you might be lacking in long range firepower, but at least the speeders are pretty mobile. Though that could make them a high priority target due to their low armour.
What did you do with the Termies? I'm always a bit reluctant to foot slog them if they don't have guns - and Land Raider+TH/SS termies is a big points investment (but you already spoke about that).
I do, however, like Powerfists for sergeants. It makes them that little bit more of a deterrant to rampaging MC's/Walkers/IC's and it also means you can at least return some hurt on things that attack you. Considering the meta game at large is mostly marines, without a powerfist you're definitely going to lose against Marine assault forces. And you don't have the luxury of being able to 'Combat Tactics' out of it.
Assault Marines with 4 attacks on the charge is actually pretty interesting - I'd not considered it. Like a poor mans Bezerkers. If you're using them to support the Razor spearhead, they'll not only be able to stay within 12 of Kantor - but they can shield themselves behind the tanks.
I approve. Maybe it's because I play gunline Ultra's - but I don't really 'rate' the Typhoon. With both my main armies (DEldar and Smurfs) if it can engage my shooting - I can destroy it. A lot of people swear by them, but I just find them too fragile.
You might suffer to Land Raiders a bit as well as Guard so I guess it's worth considering more ranged shooting. But no list can do everything at 1500 points I guess!